Gittin / Daf 73

דף 73

Gittin 72a

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רַבִּי יוֹסֵי הִיא, דְּאָמַר: מִילֵּי לָא מִימַּסְרָן לְשָׁלִיחַ.
It is the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, who says: Verbal directives cannot be delegated to an agent, and there is no concern that the scribe signed the document without the husband instructing him to do so.
Это мнение рабби Йоси, который говорит: устные указания не могут быть переданы посланнику.
וְאִי סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ מוֹדֶה רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּאוֹמֵר ״אִמְרוּ״, נָפֵיק מִינַּהּ חוּרְבָּא – דְּזִימְנִין דְּאָמַר לְהוּ לִשְׁנַיִם ״אִמְרוּ לְסוֹפֵר וְיִכְתּוֹב, וְלִפְלוֹנִי וּפְלוֹנִי וְיַחְתֹּמוּ״; וּמִשּׁוּם כִּיסּוּפָא דְּסוֹפֵר – חָיְישִׁי וּמַחְתְּמִי לֵיהּ, וּבַעַל לָא אֲמַר הָכִי.
And if it enters your mind to say that Rabbi Yosei concedes in the case of one who says: Tell another to write it, a pitfall will result from it. As sometimes, it happens that one said to two people: Tell a scribe and he will write the document and tell so-and-so and so-and-so and they will sign it. And due to the shame of the scribe, who asks: Don’t you consider me a sufficiently upright person to sign the document as a witness, the agents are concerned to avoid that disgrace and they will have one of those witnesses and the scribe sign together with him, and the husband did not say to do so. This bill of divorce is invalid because it was signed contrary to the husband’s instructions, and the agents will mistakenly think it is valid.
И если бы ты подумал, что рабби Йоси согласен в случае, когда [муж] говорит «скажите», — из этого может произойти беда: ибо иногда он скажет двоим: «Скажите писцу, чтобы написал, и такому-то и такому-то, чтобы подписали». А из-за стыда перед писцом [свидетели] дадут ему подписать [тоже], хотя муж этого не говорил.
אֶלָּא מְחַוַּורְתָּא, רֵישָׁא רַבִּי מֵאִיר וְסֵיפָא רַבִּי יוֹסֵי.
The reason that this is not a concern must be because Rabbi Yosei holds that even if the husband says to the agents: Tell the scribe to write, the bill of divorce is not valid. Rather, it is clear that the first clause of the mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Meir and the latter clause is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei.
Нет, всё же ясно: начало — по рабби Меиру, а конец — по рабби Йоси.
רַב אָשֵׁי אָמַר: כּוּלַּהּ רַבִּי יוֹסֵי הִיא, וְלָא מִיבַּעְיָא קָאָמַר: לָא מִבַּעְיָא הֵיכָא דְּלָא אֲמַר ״תְּנוּ״, אֶלָּא אֲפִילּוּ אֲמַר ״תְּנוּ״ – לָא. וְלָא מִיבַּעְיָא הֵיכָא דְּלָא אֲמַר לְבֵי תְלָתָא, אֶלָּא אֲפִילּוּ אֲמַר לְבֵי תְּלָתָא – לָא. וְלָא מִיבַּעְיָא הֵיכָא דְּלָא אֲמַר ״אִמְרוּ״, אֶלָּא אֲפִילּוּ אֲמַר ״אִמְרוּ״ – נָמֵי לָא.
Rav Ashi said an alternative explanation of the attribution of the mishna: The mishna in its entirety is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, who said that verbal directives cannot be delegated to an agent, and it is speaking utilizing the style of: It is not necessary, as follows: It is not necessary to state that the bill of divorce is not valid in a case where he did not say to the agents: Give the document to my wife; rather, even if he said to the agents: Give the bill of divorce to my wife, the document is not valid. And it is not necessary to state the halakha in a case where the husband did not say his instructions to three people; rather, even if he said his instructions to three people, no, the bill of divorce is not valid. And it is not necessary to state the halakha in a case where the husband did not say to the agents: Say my instructions to a scribe, but even if he said: Say my instructions to a scribe, the bill of divorce is also not valid.
Рав Аши сказал: вся [мишна] — по мнению рабби Йоси, и она использует форму «не только… но и»: не только когда он не сказал «вручите», но даже если сказал «вручите» — нет [недействительно]. И не только когда он не сказал троим, но даже если сказал троим — нет. И не только когда он не сказал «скажите», но даже если сказал «скажите» — тоже нет.
תַּנְיָא כְּווֹתֵיהּ דְּרַב אָשֵׁי: כָּתַב סוֹפֵר לִשְׁמָהּ וְחָתְמוּ עֵדִים לִשְׁמָהּ, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁכְּתָבוּהוּ וַחֲתָמוּהוּ וּנְתָנוּהוּ לוֹ וּנְתָנוֹ לָהּ – הֲרֵי הַגֵּט בָּטֵל, עַד שֶׁיִּשְׁמְעוּ קוֹלוֹ שֶׁיֹּאמַר לַסּוֹפֵר ״כְּתוֹב״ וְלָעֵדִים ״חֲתוֹמוּ״.
The Gemara notes: It is taught in a baraita (Tosefta 2:7–8) in accordance with the opinion of Rav Ashi that Rabbi Yosei invalidated the bill of divorce even if the husband said: Tell my instructions to a scribe, as it is taught: If the scribe wrote the bill of divorce for her sake and the witnesses signed it for her sake then even though they wrote it, and they signed it, and they gave it to the husband and he gave it to his wife, the bill of divorce is void until they hear the husband’s voice when he says to the scribe: Write the document for the sake of my wife, and to the witnesses: Sign the document for the sake of my wife.
Учили в барайте в поддержку Рав Аши: если писец написал ради неё и свидетели подписали ради неё, даже если они написали, подписали, вручили ему, а он передал ей — гет недействителен, пока они не услышат голос его, что он говорит писцу: «Напиши», а свидетелям: «Подпишите».
״יִשְׁמְעוּ״ – לְאַפּוֹקֵי מִמַּאן דְּאָמַר, מוֹדֶה רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּאוֹמֵר: ״אִמְרוּ״. ״קוֹלוֹ״ – לְאַפּוֹקֵי מִדְּרַב כָּהֲנָא אֲמַר רַב.
The inference from the baraita is that it uses the term: Until they hear, serves to exclude the opinion of the one who said: Rabbi Yosei concedes in a case where the husband says: Say my instructions to the scribe; because the scribe and the witnesses must hear the husband themselves. Furthermore, the baraita uses the term: His voice, to exclude that which Rav Kahana says that Rav says, that a husband may issue written instructions to the scribe and witnesses. According to the baraita the instructions must be verbal.
«Услышат» — чтобы исключить мнение того, кто говорит, что рабби Йоси согласен в случае, когда [муж] говорит «скажите». «Голос его» — чтобы исключить [мнение] Рав Каѓаны от имени Рава.
מַתְנִי׳ ״זֶה גִּיטִּיךְ אִם מַתִּי״; ״זֶה גִּיטִּיךְ מֵחוֹלִי זֶה״; ״זֶה גִּיטִּיךְ לְאַחַר מִיתָה״ – לֹא אָמַר כְּלוּם. ״מֵהַיּוֹם אִם מַתִּי״; ״מֵעַכְשָׁיו אִם מַתִּי״ – הֲרֵי זֶה גֵּט.
MISHNA: If one says to his wife: This is your bill of divorce if I die, or: This is your bill of divorce if I die from this illness, or: This is your bill of divorce after my death, then it is as if he said nothing, since a bill of divorce is valid only if it takes effect before the husband’s death. But if the husband said to his wife: This is your bill of divorce from today if I die, or: This is your bill of divorce from now if I die, then this is a valid bill of divorce, because once he dies, the bill of divorce retroactively applies from when he made this statement.
МИШНА. «Вот твой гет, если я умру»; «Вот твой гет от этой болезни»; «Вот твой гет после [моей] смерти» — он не сказал ничего [гет недействителен]. «С сегодняшнего дня, если я умру»; «Отныне, если я умру» — это действительный гет.
״מֵהַיּוֹם וּלְאַחַר מִיתָה״ – גֵּט וְאֵינוֹ גֵּט; וְאִם מֵת – חוֹלֶצֶת, וְלֹא מִתְיַיבֶּמֶת.
If the husband says to his wife: This is your bill of divorce from today and after my death, then it is uncertain whether his primary intention was for the bill of divorce to take effect that day, in which case it is a valid bill of divorce, or if his primary intention was that it should take effect after his death and is therefore not valid. The halakha is that there is uncertainty whether it is a valid bill of divorce or not a valid bill of divorce. And if he dies without children his wife must perform ḥalitza, since perhaps the bill of divorce is not valid and she is bound by the levirate bond and may not remarry without first performing ḥalitza. But she may not enter into levirate marriage, since perhaps the bill of divorce is valid, and it is prohibited for a divorcée to marry her brother-in-law.
«С сегодняшнего дня и после [моей] смерти» — это и гет, и не гет. И если он умрёт — она совершает халицу, но не вступает в левиратный брак.
״זֶה גִּיטִּיךְ מֵהַיּוֹם, אִם מַתִּי מֵחוֹלִי זֶה״, וְעָמַד וְהָלַךְ בַּשּׁוּק, וְחָלָה וָמֵת – אוֹמְדִין אוֹתוֹ, אִם מֵחֲמַת חוֹלִי הָרִאשׁוֹן מֵת – הֲרֵי זֶה גֵּט, וְאִם לָאו – אֵינוֹ גֵּט.
If he said: This is your bill of divorce from today if I die from this illness, and he recovered, and he arose and walked in the market, but then became ill again and died, the court assesses him. If he died because of the first illness then this is a valid bill of divorce, as his conditional statement was fulfilled, but if not, i.e., if he was cured from the first illness and died from another illness, then it is not a valid bill of divorce.
«Вот твой гет с сегодняшнего дня, если я умру от этой болезни», и он встал, ходил по рынку, заболел снова и умер — оценивают: если он умер от первой болезни — это действительный гет, а если нет — это не гет.
גְּמָ׳ אַלְמָא ״אִם מַתִּי״ כִּ״לְאַחַר מִיתָה״ דָּמֵי, וַהֲדַר תָּנֵי: ״מֵהַיּוֹם אִם מַתִּי״; ״מֵעַכְשָׁיו אִם מַתִּי״ – אַלְמָא ״אִם מַתִּי״ לָאו כִּ״לְאַחַר מִיתָה״ דָּמֵי!
GEMARA: The mishna teaches: If one says to his wife: This is your bill of divorce if I die, then it is as if he said nothing. The Gemara deduces: Apparently, the formulation: If I die, is considered to be like the formulation: The bill of divorce will be valid only after my death. And afterward the mishna teaches: If he said: This is your bill of divorce from today if I die, or: This is your bill of divorce from now if I die, then this is a valid bill of divorce. Apparently, the formulation: If I die, is not considered to be like the formulation: The bill of divorce will be valid only after my death. As explained previously in the mishna, a bill of divorce which takes effect only after the husband’s death is not a valid bill of divorce. There is an apparent contradiction as to the meaning of the term: If I die.
ГМАРА. Значит, «если я умру» подобно «после смерти» [и потому гет недействителен]. Но далее учит: «С сегодняшнего дня, если я умру»; «Отныне, если я умру» — значит, «если я умру» не подобно «после смерти»!
אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: ״אִם מַתִּי״ – שְׁתֵּי לְשׁוֹנוֹת מַשְׁמַע; מַשְׁמַע כְּמֵעַכְשָׁיו, וּמַשְׁמַע כִּלְאַחַר מִיתָה;
Abaye said: The expression: If I die, indicates two different meanings. It indicates the same meaning as one who says: From now, i.e., that the bill of divorce will take effect after death retroactively from now. And it indicates the same meaning as one who says: After my death, i.e., that the bill of divorce will take effect only after his death.
Сказал Абайе: «если я умру» имеет два значения: может пониматься как «отныне», а может — как «после смерти».
אָמַר לָהּ ״מֵהַיּוֹם״ – כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר לָהּ ״מֵעַכְשָׁיו״ דָּמֵי, לֹא אָמַר לָהּ ״מֵהַיּוֹם״ – כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר לָהּ ״לְאַחַר מִיתָה״ דָּמֵי.
If the husband said to his wife: From today if I die, it is considered to be like one who says to her: From now, conditional upon my death. But if he did not say to her: From today, it is considered to be like one who says to her: After my death, and the bill of divorce is void because it takes effect only after his death.
Если он сказал ей «с сегодняшнего дня» — это подобно тому, как если бы сказал ей «отныне». Если не сказал ей «с сегодняшнего дня» — это подобно тому, как если бы сказал ей «после смерти».
״זֶה גִּיטֵּךְ אִם מַתִּי״ – לֹא אָמַר כְּלוּם: אָמַר רַב הוּנָא: וְחוֹלֶצֶת.
§ The mishna teaches that if one says to his wife: This is your bill of divorce if I die, then it is as if he said nothing. Rav Huna says: But if her husband died without children this woman must perform ḥalitza and not enter into a levirate marriage because perhaps it is a valid bill of divorce.
«Вот твой гет, если я умру» — он не сказал ничего. Сказал Рав Ѓуна: но она совершает халицу.
וְהָא ״לֹא אָמַר כְּלוּם״ קָתָנֵי! לֹא אָמַר כְּלוּם – דַּאֲסִירָא לְעָלְמָא; וּלְיָבָם נָמֵי אֲסִירָא.
The Gemara raises a challenge: But isn’t the expression: It is as if he said nothing, taught in the mishna? The Gemara answers: The mishna means that it is as if he said nothing with regard to the fact that she is still forbidden to everyone after the death of her husband, and is bound by a levirate bond. And she is also forbidden to the yavam because perhaps the bill of divorce was valid, in which case she has no levirate bond.
Но ведь учит «не сказал ничего»! «Не сказал ничего» — означает, что она запрещена посторонним [мужчинам]; но и левиру она тоже запрещена.
וְהָא מִדְּסֵיפָא חוֹלֶצֶת, מִכְּלָל דְּרֵישָׁא יַבּוֹמֵי נָמֵי מִיַּבְּמָה! מַתְנִיתִין כְּרַבָּנַן;
The Gemara raises a challenge: But since the latter clause of the mishna teaches that in those cases of uncertainty she must perform ḥalitza, by inference it appears that in the cases of the first clause she may also enter into levirate marriage, indicating that in those cases the bill of divorce is definitely not valid. The Gemara answers: This is not a challenge to Rav Huna’s opinion, as the mishna is in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis that this kind of conditional bill of divorce is invalid and she may enter into levirate marriage.
Но ведь из того, что в конце [мишны сказано] «совершает халицу», следует, что в начале — она и в левиратный брак вступает! Мишна — по мнению мудрецов.
וְרַב הוּנָא דְּאָמַר כְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי, דְּאָמַר: זְמַנּוֹ שֶׁל שְׁטָר מוֹכִיחַ עָלָיו.
But Rav Huna was not explaining the words of the mishna; the statement that he said is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, who says as a principle: The date written in a document proves when it takes effect. Therefore, since the bill of divorce bears that day’s date, it takes effect immediately, even though it is not stated explicitly.
А Рав Ѓуна говорит в соответствии с рабби Йоси, который сказал: дата документа свидетельствует о нём [т.е. дата в гете указывает на момент вступления в силу].
אִי רַבִּי יוֹסֵי, חֲלִיצָה נָמֵי לָא תִּיבְעֵי! וְכִי תֵּימָא מְסַפְּקָא לֵיהּ לְרַב הוּנָא אִי הִלְכְתָא כְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹ אֵין הֲלָכָה כְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי; וּמִי מְסַפְּקָא לֵיהּ?!
The Gemara challenges: If Rav Huna’s statement is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei then the woman should also not require ḥalitza, as in his opinion the bill of divorce is entirely valid and there is no levirate bond at all. And if you would say that Rav Huna is uncertain if the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei or if the halakha is not in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, and on account of this he was stringent in accordance with both opinions, i.e., the one which requires ḥalitza and the one which forbids levirate marriage, this also presents a difficulty. But is Rav Huna in fact uncertain?
Если по рабби Йоси — то и халица не нужна! И если скажешь, что Рав Ѓуна сомневается, является ли Галаха по рабби Йоси или нет, — разве он сомневается?!
וְהָא רַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ חֲלַשׁ, עוּל לְגַבֵּיהּ רַב הוּנָא וְרַב נַחְמָן; אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַב הוּנָא לְרַב נַחְמָן, בְּעִי מִינֵּיהּ מֵרַבָּה בַּר אֲבוּהּ: הֲלָכָה כְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי, אוֹ אֵין הֲלָכָה? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: טַעְמָא דְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי לָא יָדַעְנָא, הֲלָכָה אֶיבְעֵי מִינֵּיהּ?! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אַתְּ בְּעִי מִינֵּיהּ הֲלָכָה, וְטַעְמֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי אֲנָא אָמֵינָא לָךְ.
But when Rabba bar Avuh was ill Rav Huna and Rav Naḥman entered to visit him. Rav Huna said to Rav Naḥman: Ask of him, Rabba bar Avuh: Is the halakha in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei or is the halakha not in accordance with his opinion? Rav Naḥman said to Rav Huna: I do not know the reason for the opinion held by Rabbi Yosei, and you ask me to ask Rabba bar Avuh the halakha? Rav Huna said to Rav Naḥman: You ask him the halakha, and I will tell you the reason for the opinion held by Rabbi Yosei afterward.
Ведь Рабба бар Авуѓа заболел, и к нему пришли Рав Ѓуна и Рав Нахман. Сказал Рав Ѓуна Рав Нахману: спроси у Раббы бар Авуѓа — Галаха по рабби Йоси или нет? Тот ответил: смысл [мнения] рабби Йоси я не знаю, а я буду спрашивать Галаху?! Сказал ему [Рав Ѓуна]: ты спроси у него Галаху, а смысл [мнения] рабби Йоси я тебе объясню.
בְּעָא מִינֵּיהּ. אֲמַר לֵיהּ, הָכִי אֲמַר רַב: הֲלָכָה כְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי. לְבָתַר דִּנְפַק אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הַיְינוּ טַעְמָא דְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי – דְּקָסָבַר: זְמַנּוֹ שֶׁל שְׁטָר מוֹכִיחַ עָלָיו! אֶלָּא מְסַפְּקָא לֵיהּ
Rav Naḥman asked of Rabba bar Avuh what the halakha is. Rabba bar Avuh said to him: So said Rav: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yosei. After he left Rav Huna said to Rav Naḥman: This is the reason for the opinion of Rabbi Yosei, as he holds: The date written in a document proves when it takes effect. From this incident it is clear that Rav Huna holds that the halakha is in accordance with Rabbi Yosei, as Rav Huna certainly accepted the opinion that Rabba bar Avuh said in the name of Rav. Rather, it is necessary to say that Rav Huna is uncertain
Спросил у него. Тот ответил: так сказал Рав — Галаха по рабби Йоси. Когда вышли, [Рав Ѓуна] сказал ему: вот смысл [мнения] рабби Йоси — он считает, что дата документа свидетельствует о нём! Значит, [Рав Ѓуна] сомневается [в другом] —